Episode 25 - Momin Ashraf: The Foggara System

Forget Silicon Valley. The most innovative "smart technology" for water management might have been invented 1,500 years ago in the Algerian desert.

Host Hugo Powell welcomes Momin Ashraf—Oxford graduate, Esri Young Scholar Award winner, and GIS consultant at Satellite Applications Catapult. Momin has done the impossible: using synthetic aperture radar to spot fuel trucks in the desert and tracking human trafficking via informal mines. But his dream map is something entirely different.

He wants to build a dynamic, interactive visualization of the Foggara system—an ancient, gravity-fed underground water network that communities have used for centuries across North Africa and Asia. Why? Because modern French-colonial dams and canals are losing 50% of Algeria's water. Meanwhile, the Fugara's secret isn't just engineering—it's a radical social justice philosophy where downstream communities hold the power, and "water elders" negotiate allocations face-to-face.

This episode is a takedown of Cartesian reductionism, a love letter to indigenous knowledge, and a warning about fighting "12 rounds with Mother Nature." Plus, Momin offers early-career GIS pros a simple roadmap through the noise (hint: start with ArcGIS/QGIS, then Python, then have fun).

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to 15 Minute Maps, where I ask my guests to let their minds roam free and come up with a new idea for their dream map. The first known maps of the world were created thousands of years ago, just a flat disk surrounded by water. And today we are mapping the furthest reaches of the known universe. In between lie a myriad of mapping possibilities. What if we could do away with resource limitations? Think beyond the conventions of time, space, and political boundaries. What kind of new maps could we dream of? Today I'm joined by Momin Ashraf. Moman and I had the pleasure of working together recently on a small arms trade project based in northeastern Nigeria. The team I was working for and I tasked him with the remote sensing expert's favorite thing of please find evidence of small arms trade by manually checking satellite imagery with these nebulous and fake coordinates. So we basically tasked him to find a needle in a haystack. But in all seriousness, Momin is a recent graduate of the University of Oxford, having completed his master's in sustainable urban development in September 2025. And he won the Ezra Young Scholar Award for his dissertation that focused on conflict boom towns in Yemen. And now works as a GIS consultant for satellite applications Catapult. Momin, thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

No, great to be here. Looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

I had the pleasure of working with you and Catapult. But uh so Catapult isn't strictly a humanitarian or relief-based company, um, but they do often work with the private and the nonprofit uh sectors on various projects. Uh what key differences do you see in the application of satellite imagery within the private and let's say the NGO or development or nonprofit sectors?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, no, that's a really good question. I think um your intro kind of so I I feel like there's that whole uh boring side that I could uh cheer off on. Uh, you know, there's a central procurement side, I could talk about end user license agreements, but that needle in a haystack, I think I think that's one of the main things I see with nonprofit, is is really pushing that data uh to in an innovative way in ways that's never been used before. Sometimes this is simple. So a direct example would be if uh we were looking at a conflict uh in Tigray, Ethiopia, for example, in the past, uh, and we know that there's been vast destruction of multiple villages. Evidencing this with remote sensing is relatively straightforward, right? And uh the the interesting side comes in with that indirect evidencing, is where I think it starts to get pushed a little bit with uh so we want it's a researcher would come to us, as they have in the past, to evidence human trafficking checkpoints in Niger, right? Now, though human trafficking checkpoints can be spotted, uh, an interesting proxy to analyze them is the growth of artisanal mines or informal mines that we know are linked to these human trafficking supply chains. So what you then start doing is start going wider looking for these proxies. You start using Sentinel 2, which is a 10-meter resolution satellite, to do you and then use some change detection algorithms to see if these mines are growing in correlation with conflict dynamics. Uh, and then you can see how long they're growing at, at what rate, and then you can begin to quantify these the way no other discipline can. The most unconventional way I've used it is uh using synthetic aperture radar to spot fuel trucks in the desert, right? And this this was to better understand uh fuel dynamics and conflict sounds. Now, if anyone's tried to spot anything in the desert using satellite imagery, it's essentially a where's WALLI needle and haystack task. Not fun. But synthetic aperture radar essentially use a C-band uh shortwave to measure deformation on the ground traditionally. However, man-made structures uh reflect these, and you get these uh strange artifacts that basically look like bright stars on a map. Um, and in the desert, often man-made structures are the ones really reflecting this. Uh, and in our case, these fuel trucks kind of popped out, and then what you can then do is task optical imagery, and then you start to find these fuel trucks, right? Uh similar methods have been used for detecting uh vessels in the ocean.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

So I mean I'm very pleased to hear that it's actually in the public sector or the NGO sector that you are being forced to come up with new ideas and new new ways of applying uh GIS uh tools and technology. Well, synthetic aperture radar sounds incredibly useful, and I would be surprised if everyone in my audience had already heard of it. So hopefully someone reaches out to you uh to learn a little bit more about that. But without further ado, if you're ready, I think it's time that we hear about your dream map. Are you feeling good? Slowly.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go for it.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

All right. Well, I'll count you in in three, two, one. Over to you.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

With my background in uh geospatial and sustainable urban development now, my dream map is a dynamic and interactive visualization of the Fegara system. Uh, Figara systems are traditionally gravity-fed underground water management and irrigation systems that have been used for centuries across uh nations and arid and semi-arid regions of the world, right? So they're called Fegara in Algeria, which is what I'll call them today, but similar systems uh exist across North Africa and Asia with different names. So you've got uh Aflage in Amman, um Kana in Iran, uh Karez in Pakistan, right? So my interest is not so much the physical system, but what sustainable urban development can learn from these indigenous knowledge to truly understand their benefit, if I may. I just want to quickly move out so we can understand the philosophy, right? So there's a quote I really liked uh before I started my MSc by Ernest Schumacher, who's an economist, uh, and it's a it's a map analogy, or which I have to fit in, uh, which is a man who uses an imaginary map uh thinking it's true is likely to be worse off than someone with no map at all. And I love that. And what he's essentially doing here is critiquing the dominant paradigm of development that has more or less been influenced by Western Enlightenment and fundamentally influenced modern science today. Traditional science is grounded in this Cartesian mechanistic notion of the world, right? Aiming to view problems in a vacuum, a simple cause and effect relationship, right? And traditional science and its linear thinking, though it's been incredibly beneficial, the methods are at times can be reductionist. Um, and there's this eagerness to reduce complexity, right? And it it hinders a full understanding of problems. So, what does this mean? So let's go to Algeria as a case study, for example. So, Algeria, if we go back in time during the French settler colonial period of 1830 to 1962, um, it significantly influenced Algeria's water system today, right? They removed small-scale decentralization water networks due to complex uh due to complexity in what managing water uh in an essentially a resource-scarce region, which made it harder to extract for agricultural production and export it back to France. This was replaced by their own centralized system that they perceived as superior technology, such as dams and canal. And it was this universal approach to water management that, you know, it worked in France, it'll work here too. And this universalization of knowledge and development is kind of the culprit I'm trying to go after today, which pushing technology out of the social cultural context from where they came from and where they were born. Now, the system that they replaced was at the time only able to produce a tenth of what the previous system in Algeria had, leading to significant water shortages. Fast forward to Algeria today, post-independence, uh, a lot of urban water management practices have been inherited. So 68% of Algeria resides in 4% of the land uh north of the country. All Algerian cities suffer from at least one issue, and over 50% of the water is being lost before it reaches its final destination. So one of the main focuses that many states around the globe have is viewing this purely as a supply problem, right? Focusing on increasing it through dams, canals, groundwater extraction, desalinization, i.e., modern technology. And now, though there are benefits, there are a heap of negative externalities. Dams, as we know, create conflict upstream and downstream with stakeholders, impact habitats, water species, desalinization has its own externalities, uh, such as brine waste and high energy usage. And then historically, uh, Algeria, their groundwater had low salinity levels, requiring minimal processing, but then overexploitation over the years has caused seawater intrusion that gets contaminated. It's this unnatural overstruction of natural resources that's dangerous. Uh, one of my uh guest lecturers from uh King's College London put it really well. Uh, he went, he was like, when you fight with a river that uh naturally wants to uh bend and weave and forcing it into canals to maximize extraction, you're essentially fighting with Mother Nature. And he was like, Yeah, no one really survives when they go 12 rounds with Mother Nature. Your arms aren't long enough to box with God, right? So let's not mess around with things we can't fully control. And you know, it's not a direct criticism of these technologies, they're definitely benefits, but what we're effectively doing is I think what Schumacher called it was an intergenerational ethical burden, not only on our generation, but future generation generations as well, with these environmental impacts.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

You've outlined very clearly exactly why the the new inherited irrigation system is is troublesome. But is there any evidence that if you were to go back to the indigenous uh way or the the the traditional way, the way that it was there before the French colonizers came in? Is there any evidence that that would do anything better?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Indigenous knowledge and philosophy, right? So the Fagara system, it's not perfect. However, it's this ancient socio-technical system that's been going back for almost 1,500 years, right? The system channels underground water into a central mother well. Uh it's cost effective. Uh the underground mechanisms avoid uh water evaporating. It utilizes gravity to control irrigation uh by designing steeper gradients um to the surrounding land. Uh, during the seasons with heavy rain, Figaras divert flood water into underground channels to protect soil erosion, excessive surface runoff, uh, to avoid creating hazards elsewhere. So it's that social justice system that I think the Fegara is that's the strongest part that I like about it. So in the province of Adrar, to your question, uh which uh in eastern uh Algeria, uh Western Algeria, sorry, um, you have these Al-Khaels who are water elders, right? And they're the main figure responsible for maintenance of these systems. And what they do is they negotiate with their community members and then other Al-Khayals and nearby nearby towns uh to ensure that water is sustainably distributed. And they also make sure that water is extracted as a steady rate to stop saltwater intrusion or just overextraction in general. And that social justice concept in of Fagara is that frequent interaction with a range of community members to understand social, economic, and environmental water needs as a practice and set allocations is, I think, where why it's working in Adwar, and there are parts of Pakistan in the south where it still works, small parts of Iran being rehabilitated in Afghanistan. And unlike uh most water systems today, those further downstreams in this Fagara system or in a Karez or Aflash system, they have the power. And that's the philosophy that I think is powerful, on top of it being able to work. In Adora, when I what I read last, I think uh towns is as big as I think a hundred households, uh, the water works sufficiently, right? And one of the reasons it works is water allocations and arrangements are not fixed, they're constantly negotiated, but it's done together as a community. There's no real hierarchy within the community. They understand that for a community to strive and work together, it's not how you judge your winners, but how you judge your losers. And if those worse worse off by water managed practices are the you know, are the are the ones suffering, that that's that's what you need to look out for. And that's it's the philosophy and the interconnection of the socio-technical system.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

It's interesting the way that you frame it. It's it's you have the obviously that you a very clear reference to the three pillars of sustainable development. Uh but it's interesting the way you frame it as a very sociological approach. The the most important thing isn't necessarily about the management of the water, but it is how how people's attitudes towards the water and towards each other must change in order for this kind of system to work. So right now, with 50% loss uh of water before it can get into storage. You know, that that is a very clear detractor from the current system. And it seems like it would just need a little bit of a mental change, an attitude shift towards how we view water as very much a finite resource in order for these Fugara systems to maybe work on a much larger scale, because clearly they work on a small scale. But I I wanted to ask you why do you need uh a dynamic map that outlines all of these Fugara systems? What would it help you understand in the application of maybe a larger Fugara system?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

So again, I think what the the benefit of having a um interactive dynamic map is I think with a lot of indigenous uh uh philosophies and management practices, for the most part, life is all about storytelling, right? And I think geospatial is a neutral vessel to tell the story. Has GIS been used in Figara systems? Yes, but it's mainly done from a maintenance point of view. But if we can have an interactive, dynamic visualization showing us how the Al-Khayals, the community elders, view water as a resource through their eyes, how if we had this dashboard of and that now I'm I'm going against myself, I'm reducing it to a dashboard, but how the economic allocations are derived, you know, how how is uh land managed for environment environmental reasons, how you know we can use NDVI and agricultural monitoring to understand how water allocations based on the surrounding environment will be distributed, and then the social side as well. Um, you know, which households uh live uh in proximity to the Figaras, how many people per household, how is that distributed? And then it's the flexibility I'm really interested to visualize. Now, based on all these different uh different things uh and different pieces coming together, how that water allocation is distributed. And I think that's a fundamental change that'd be so powerful to visualize, and that geospatial is kind of this neutral yet beautiful vessel to do it. Um you you have droughts and it's in in the global north and loads of reed uh areas, and uh you'll have forest fires, but at the same time, we'll be uh watering our golf courses, right? So water is a finite source, but it's also distributed very interestingly at times, where you know that there's been tariffs put uh on, you know, use a bucket uh for your car during uh during a drought. But yeah, you look over your shoulder and then you've got this, you know, ex excess land with the water sprinklers just for golf courses. So I think that distribution and and that management just tells a really powerful story. And I think Connect is a great way to connect people with their environment. It's not this it doesn't just come out of your tap magically that you just pay a bill for to who knows who. Um, it's that interconnection, that tempering um that I really like. And I think that's a that's the map Schumacher wants us to use, right? Not this imaginary one that, look, this is the way life is, but understanding that we are part of this world and everything is interconnected, um, and everyone does have a right to this resource as as finite um uh as you know it's said to be.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Uh it's funny the way you describe it and the way that it seems to work, the thing that pops to my mind, I don't know if you've read or seen the Dune films, but they have an entire underground system that collects water from uh from the surface, and I really love that image. But maybe to bring it a little bit back on topic, shall we? Moment, you have one minute left. Do you have any final thoughts that you want to leave with the audience?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, no, I do well so I'm I'm quite early career, so I think I'm coming five years uh to I think in October. So I do loads of uh uh student outreach with the Royal Geographic Society. Um and yeah, students, loads of people are keen to get into GIS and geospatial, which is great. But I can I can see the and it was I was a safe, I can see the anxiety of their eyes in their eyes when they ask me, hey, like how do I get into this? And I think one of the beauties of uh just the geospatial world is it's it's quite broad and holistic, but I think that can be uh one of the scary points as well, right? One second you've just got a hold of ArcGIS, now you've learned that QGIS is a thing, now you know that R Studio and Python uh can be integrated and they have their own spatial power packages. There's a whole 3D GIS world out there, now there's a better know your monster called AI, so it can get really overwhelming really quick. So uh very simply, I think if you're a student who's just getting into it and wants to know how to move forward, uh ArcGIS and QGIS are your safe place. Uh, you don't need to know every function, just be comfortable enough uh with what's there. Uh be able to navigate around comfortably so that you can YouTube or Google a problem. Once that's you once you've got that sorted out, Google and YouTube your way around a coding language. I think Python would be my recommendation. No one's asking you to write script off by heart, but learn the basic syntax so that you can uh start to work around your own geospatial workflows and other people's APIs so you can kind of scale up your work, and then just have fun with it, man. It's an it's an art. So John Nelson on YouTube, incredible. Uh he's got a bunch of fun mapping trip uh tips and tricks uh on YouTube uh you can do your own project, brush up your skill. Um, and most people who do GIS love what they do, they're having fun. Uh I know Hugo definitely does. So yeah, just find find where GIS takes you. So it's that Rumi quote, man. It's uh you are you are what you seek. So you're already on that track. Just uh get those three. I think those are like that, that's your base, and then just keep chasing what interests you and it yeah, it just opens loads of doors.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Momin, your time is up. Thank you so much for your super intriguing map. It wasn't at all what I was expecting, and I'm really it was really fascinating to hear your not just practical approaches, but also your philosophical view of of how you look at GIS and how you look at its applications. Uh, I'm gonna throw um a little bit more into your uh early career hat. I would say uh uh in a practical sense, something that I see coming up in a lot of uh TVs is FME and Google Earth Engine. Uh I would say that Google Earth Engine is super easy to get into. Uh if you have any basis in any kind of coding language, picking up Java is mega straightforward and I think it's a super powerful tool. Uh and then FME um is something that a lot of organizations seem to be requiring these days. And again, I like to think of it as Lego coding, because you just make your own little operators and you put them all together and it and it generates this wonderful uh you know always online uh software. A moment, if people are interested in what you do or want to get in contact, what's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah, yeah, please. Uh LinkedIn is probably the best way. All the links to the reports and projects I've worked on. If anyone's interested to check those out. There are a couple of cool story maps of our projects. Uh I've got a story map of my portfolio as well. So yeah, please get in touch with me, especially if you're interested in indigenous knowledge or work within the space. Yeah, please reach out.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Mermin, thank you so much, and thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

No, thank you. Thanks for having me, Hugo. And that's it. Brilliant. That was done. That was great fun. No, I really enjoyed that. So I was I have like I made like just five, six bullet points, and I was looking at last night. I was like, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

I'm gonna see how far I can push this idea, and then I'm like, he might stop me halfway, but let's thank you for listening to 15 minute maps presented by me, Hugo Powell. This was a Powell Media production. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast on whichever platform you're using to listen to it. And I do encourage you to share it with any of your friends and colleagues who may find this topic interesting. And on that note, if you or anyone that you know who may have an interesting idea for their dream map, please don't hesitate to get in contact with me on LinkedIn.